masseffectfandomcom-20200222-history
Forum:Updating the ME2 Enemy info box
Being the complete nutball I am, I've taken it upon myself to attempt to improve the ME2 Enemy info box. This sprang from the thought of "hey, wouldn't it be cool if the wiki showed the HUD item that displays an enemies defenses?" Here you have the result. It's not ideal, as I can't just shove an image under text. (wikia considers setting background images behind content a potential security risk... probably wise.), so I have to do old-school table layouts in order to get all of the content to fit correctly. Since I added this, I figured we could delete the rows of the table that list defenses that don't apply to an enemy. I hope you agree. :) I've tested my changes on Chrome, Firefox, and IE. So far as I could tell, it looked correct on all of them. If it doesn't, let me know. It's quite possible I've missed something. Anyway, I'm looking for: #Comments on what I've changed. Does it suck? Could this one little tweak make it better? etc. #Other suggestions for improvement of the template as a whole. Things that could be added which would be useful, things that could be removed, tweaks to the color scheme, etc. Other than that, I'll leave the discussion open to you. :) I've given an example of the template's usage below. Thanks! Oh right, almost forgot. Part of the reason I'm doing this is to get an up-to-date feel for what the template should look like, so as to apply this toward an eventual Mass Effect Enemy info box, so don't heckle me about that. :P Dammej 08:28, July 9, 2010 (UTC) Update: I've gotten most of the suggested styles represented in my sandbox page (It's the "Page location" in the template above). Still looking for suggestions, but it seems like we're winding down toward trying to nail down the favored style. I'll send out some messages to talk pages requesting comments. Very good stuff so far! Also, don't forget to make suggestions about the rest of the template. If something has been missing, or something has been bugging you for a while about it, please make yourself heard here. Dammej 06:18, July 13, 2010 (UTC) Update: The project has been implemented. Thanks for the input everyone! -- Dammej (talk) 00:41, August 8, 2010 (UTC) Final vote (closed) Results * 6 votes for Style 1 * 3 votes for Style 2 Style 1! It has now been implemented. Below the voting instructions and votes are preserved As we failed to arrive at a clear majority with the last vote (we were close!), I'm doing another vote between the two top candidates. As before, have a look at them in my sandbox and vote for which style you prefer. For convenience, I've included previous votes if they were for one of these two candidates. If you are switching your vote, delete it from the current selection here, then place your signature under the new one. Style 1: Hex health bar below the enemy image #Lancer1289 #Bastian964 #SpartHawg948 #The Illusive Man #Dammej #MEffect Fan Style 2: Angular 'hex' frame around the enemy image. Name above it, health below #Commdor #PikaShepard #Harbinger265 Preliminary Voting (closed) Results Style Vote: 10 votes total *5 for Hex health bar below the enemy image (Style 2) *3 votes for Angular 'hex' frame around the enemy image. Name above it, health below (Style 6) *2 votes for Hex health bar sitting partially inside, partially outside of the infobox (Style 4) No majority winner, will revote between Style 2 and Style 6. Theme Vote: 8 votes total *6 votes for the new orange theme *2 votes for the current blue theme with the health indicator the in-game orange color New orange theme. The voting instructions and votes for the preliminary vote are preserved below I've seen many comments so far, and I've tried to address them all. There are disagreements on which is best however, so I believe it's time to just put this up to a vote to see what the community prefers. I think it might be best to split the decision into two parts. Vote for what style you prefer, and then vote for what theme you'd prefer. I'll refrain from voting for the time being to avoid giving any sort of influence one way or another. If there's no clear winner (No one style wins a majority of the vote), then I'd like to do a secondary vote between the two styles that have the most votes. Style Voting Have a look at my sandbox page and vote for which of the six styles you'd prefer regardless of the color theme for it. If you'd prefer that the template did not change whatsoever, place your vote in the "no change" section. If you have another style that's not present in the sandbox, please describe it in the "Other Style" section. It may help others to visualize it if you have a mocked up image to look at in addition to the text description. No change. Keep the template as it is now. Style 1: Hex health bar above the enemy image Style 2: Hex health bar below the enemy image #Here is my vote for this style. Lancer1289 05:23, July 18, 2010 (UTC) #My vote as well. Bastian964 01:33, July 20, 2010 (UTC) #Yeppers. SpartHawg948 05:52, July 23, 2010 (UTC) #My vote. --The Illusive Man 06:13, July 23, 2010 (UTC) #Here I am. -- Dammej (talk) 06:05, July 26, 2010 (UTC) Style 3: Hex health bar above and outside of the infobox entirely Style 4: Hex health bar sitting partially inside, partially outside of the infobox #My vote as the first choice. Teugene 09:35, July 20, 2010 (UTC) #My vote. JakePT 06:37, July 20, 2010 (UTC) Style 5: Rectangular frame around the enemy image. Name above it, health below. Style 6: Angular 'hex' frame around the enemy image. Name above it, health below. #And here's my vote. -- Commdor (Talk) 00:28, July 18, 2010 (UTC) #My vote. PikaShepard 01:51, July 20, 2010 (UTC) #This is my choice. Harbinger265 13:54, July 23, 2010 (UTC) Other Style: Describe it. Theme voting There are currently 3 color themes featured in my sandbox. Vote for which color theme you think would be best regardless of the style chosen for it. This vote only applies to the modified template. 1. Current blue-gray theme, Health indicator blue 2. Current blue-gray theme, Health indicator the in-game orange color #My vote. JakePT 06:38, July 20, 2010 (UTC) #And here I am. Harbinger265 13:40, July 23, 2010 (UTC) 3. New Orange theme that matches the color of the health indicator #And my theme vote. -- Commdor (Talk) 00:29, July 18, 2010 (UTC) #Second my vote for the Cerberus theme. Lancer1289 05:24, July 18, 2010 (UTC) #Third. Bastian964 01:39, July 20, 2010 (UTC) #Theme vote. PikaShepard 01:51, July 20, 2010 (UTC) #Here's me. -- Dammej (talk) 06:05, July 26, 2010 (UTC) #Oops. Voted for style but forgot about color. Well, here it is. SpartHawg948 10:39, July 26, 2010 (UTC) 4. Other: Describe it Comments I like it. Can't decide if the health bar looks better where it is or at the top of the infobox, though. Tough call. -- Commdor (Talk) 08:42, July 9, 2010 (UTC) I love the health bars thing, but I'm not so hot about it's location. It just doesn't look right in the box itself. Maybe try it on top? JakePT 12:22, July 9, 2010 (UTC) :Since it'd be tedious to change the template to implement every idea, I just made a couple of changes right in my sandbox. User:Dammej/Sandbox/MEInfoBox has the two styles that I'm trying. The top one keeps the health bars inside the box itself, but above the picture. The second has them outside of the box entirely. I'm not sure what to think about either. I feel like the rest of the table needs something to separate it from the picture of the enemy... I'm just not sure what. Using the name again might look silly. :P Dammej 17:38, July 9, 2010 (UTC) ::Ok, since I appear to have missed a lot, I actually like it where it is on this page, just below the image. The other two, like at the top and outside the box entirely, just don't look right. Well there's my opinion. Also why is you entire sandbox page in French, I think? Not good with languages. Lancer1289 18:13, July 9, 2010 (UTC) :::Not french, just filler text. Perhaps using a more "cerberus" color theme for the rest of the box would help the info box to look right. I'll have a go at changing it. Dammej 18:34, July 9, 2010 (UTC) ::::Well ok then. Anyway I like the more orange Cerberus color, but I still like the info box on this page, with the bars below the picture. Above and outside altogether just don't look as right, to me anyway, as the bars below the image. Again my opinion. Hmm, maybe we could do blue, darker shade, ones for ME and orange for ME2 enemies. Possiblities. Lancer1289 19:17, July 9, 2010 (UTC) :::::Er, something happened to my preview or something. I thought the page had the 3 boxes, but I guess it was just two. Ah well. I've put both above and below previews for the "cerberus" theme. Dammej 19:36, July 9, 2010 (UTC) I've moved the health bar indicator to the top of the page. There is some precedent for this information appearing at the top of the box rather than below the picture. See and . I'm also holding off on changing the color of the rest of the box for the moment... unless people want to re-do the color schemes of all templates related to ME2 content. It's doable... just kinda outside the scope of this project. If the colors are liked we can make a seperate project whose goal is to make a unified "ME2 color scheme"Dammej 01:25, July 10, 2010 (UTC) :Yes a color scheme for ME2 enemies would be a seperate project. Anyway, I can't argue with precednet in this case with the linked templates. Well if this does get changed, I guess I can't argue with bars anywhere, just as long as they aren't outside the template. That just doesn't look right. Lancer1289 05:09, July 10, 2010 (UTC) ::If this is still up for vote I would like to say that the health bars below the picture are more to my liking. The health bars above the picture but inside the template aren't too bad they just seem to deemphasize the picture (if that makes any sense). Bastian964 05:23, July 10, 2010 (UTC) :::Well I fell I should just say again, I think that the bars should be inside the template box, and I'll tollerate either. Although I would prefer them under the picture for the reasons that Bastian946 stated as I understood what was said and agree. Lancer1289 05:30, July 10, 2010 (UTC) I think my main problem is that while the box resembles the game's version, the shape clashes with the rectangular shape of the rest of the box, leaving 4 big empty corners around it. I've added my take underneath (I'm prefer the bars be wider if going in this direction, but I'm not gonna bother fiddling with the images yet. JakePT 06:26, July 10, 2010 (UTC) :Had a look at your page where you're trying them out. Big fan of the orange theme, I was actually trying something similar myself back when I was pressing for new character boxes, but never went through to proposing them since I didn't think anyone would go for it. I also prefer the angled health bars box on the outside on the top. Having those angles really doesn't work inside a rectangle IMO.JakePT 06:30, July 10, 2010 (UTC) :Hmm, I think that that would be a good idea, however I still prefer the bars below the image. A box for the bars is good, however above just seems to crowd the image. Below seems to sit better, but again my opinion on the matter. Lancer1289 06:30, July 10, 2010 (UTC) I see what you mean JakePT. Hmm. The only reason I don't care for the health bars outside of the box entirely is that there's nothing to visually connect the two pieces of information anymore. The bars are just floating above the table, with no obvious indication that they're related to it. I've mocked up a way to compromise that, I think. Check it out in my sandbox when you get the chance. It's just an image right now, because I don't want to expend the effort to get that solution working without knowing if I have support for that direction yet. I think it would solve the issue of the angular-ness of the container clashing with the rectangular box, anyway. I'm not opposed to going for a rectangle instead of the in-game (I literally copied the textures. It's about as close to in-game looking as you can get :P) hexagonal design, but I think extending the bars farther than they are will look just too long. I think if we go the rectangular direction, it might be best to split the name from the health bars, and have the name appear above the image, with the health bars (being the same width that they are now) appear below the image. I'll try to mock that up as well, though I don't have an image ready, so it'll be a bit longer. Let me know what you think. :) Dammej 23:27, July 10, 2010 (UTC) :The box seems to work better, but I still don't like it at the top or outside the thing entirely. They look good right below the picture where it seems to fit better. Well from my perspective anyway. Again me just voicing my opinion here. Lancer1289 23:38, July 10, 2010 (UTC) ::The problem with the box is that instead of room between the shape and the info box it instead just replaces that with too much between the box and the name/the bars. Since that's the in-game texture and the box has almost the same problem as it, I vote for the hexagonal design. Also I personally think the in-game texture looks better anyways, since its closer to the shape of the health bars. Bastian964 02:03, July 11, 2010 (UTC) Added another mocked up one to my sandbox page, at the bottom (currently). Uses boxes, no red to be found. Tries to solve the "too much space" problem by giving the health bars a label to the left of them. Thoughts? Dammej 01:14, July 12, 2010 (UTC) :I can live without the Cerberus theme, until we have another vote on that one, but I still like #2 on the page. ""Cerberus" theme, health bars below". Not a lot of space and it is, well to me anyway, more visually satisfying. Lancer1289 01:20, July 12, 2010 (UTC) Gaaaahhh, too many options, the bane of my life. Maybe we should hold some sort of elimination vote, narrow the options down to two and then hold the final vote. Because now I can't decide anything. I favor this one, but only if the full Cerberus theme will be used in it. I like the simplicity of this one, but don't so much like the in-game health bar bit has that orange background part gone. Maybe I'll flip a coin to decide if I should decide this by flipping a coin. -- Commdor (Talk) 01:31, July 12, 2010 (UTC) :Alright, I'll vote for this one. George Washington's infinite wisdom hasn't failed me before. -- Commdor (Talk) 01:35, July 12, 2010 (UTC) ::The idea of a "narrowing down" vote isn't a bad one. I'd prefer we do that rather than do a first-past-the-post vote on it. It's also not finished, so if you have a suggestion on how to tweak any style that you currently see, then I'll happily take it and mock it up. It can't hurt anything, really. :) Dammej 01:44, July 12, 2010 (UTC) :::No that isn't a bad idea at all. I just created voting templates for the proposed policy forum, see Forum:Policy Forum for more on that, and I can just move them into the mainspace if a vote to narrow doow the choices then pick the winner. You can see my sandbox for the templates. But a vote does sound like a good idea. Lancer1289 01:48, July 12, 2010 (UTC) ::::Yeah, but I don't want to jump the gun here. It's only been what, 3 days since the initial proposal? I'd rather hear more comments, opinions and suggestions before we go eliminating things. Dammej 01:53, July 12, 2010 (UTC) :::::Indeed, waiting is always good. Just throwing a vote out there isn't a bad idea, especially if there is like a 1-1-2-1-2 vote on this. A vote like that usually creates more problems then it solves. Lancer1289 01:57, July 12, 2010 (UTC) Commdor had a neat suggestion which you can see implemented as the last one in the sandbox right now. I'm going to try doing the "hex" theme like that too. Dammej 02:07, July 12, 2010 (UTC) :Another one, at the bottom again. Got angled edges n stuff. I kinda like it. Could use a polishing, but I'll see how it's received before I put more effort into it. Dammej 07:16, July 12, 2010 (UTC) I love the mocked up one that's just an image, whatever you call it. JakePT 09:16, July 12, 2010 (UTC) Yep, "Normal theme, name above, health bars below, angled edges around picture" was what I was going for, Dammej. When's votin' day? Bring on the sparklers and fried chicken. -- Commdor (Talk) 01:27, July 13, 2010 (UTC) I've reorganized my sandbox a little, so it should be easier to navigate, at least from the TOC. Also, everything there is now a "working" example. Meaning that if people say "I like that one!" I could actually move it into the template and have it work. Keep suggestions coming. I'd like this to look as good as possible. Dammej 06:18, July 13, 2010 (UTC) Maybe it's just my opinion, but that hex HUD element doesn't look good in this template, because it leaves much of a free space above the picture unused. Personally I prefer second picture. But these lifebars above increase the size of the template, which is not good to me. Maybe HUD should be placed into the picture itself. IMHO.--Harbinger265 06:49, July 13, 2010 (UTC) :I wouldn't assume this, except you specifically said "leaves too much space above the picture", leading me to believe you only looked at the two examples that are here on the project page. Did you look at the other styles in my sandbox? There are 6 total. 12 if you count the two different color schemes for each style. It's fine if you comment applies to all of them, I just wanted to make sure. :) Dammej 07:05, July 13, 2010 (UTC) Thanks! That's because I've seen the pictures on this page only, not there. But now I have to say that the one in the very end is my favourite now(Name and health split, hex form), because it is functional, I mean, doesn't waste space. There is only one thing I didn't get: Why do you call that "Cerberus" theme? Because of color? Is red color or something like that good for eyes? It's just my thought, but I think it shouldn't be ignored.=)--Harbinger265 08:46, July 13, 2010 (UTC) :I called it cerberus because I'm crazy. :P Mostly, it has to do with the fact that I'm trying to emulate the in-game colors with that theme... in the ME2 you're working for cerberus so... "cerberus" theme. :P :I don't know if there's anything that's measurably "better" about that theme. I mostly did it because it goes with the color that the health bar has moreso than the current blueish/gray theme that we have going on. As Teugene pointed out though, it might look strange compared with the rest of the site. Dammej 06:44, July 14, 2010 (UTC) Yes it might. And it already looked strange, when I was watching examples on your page, and I got my eyes a little tired. In my opinion, a little color adjustment wouldn't hurt. It's just my proposal, for the greater good. =) As for the Cerberus.. When I look at these colors, it reminds me of the Collectors.. Don't know why. :PHarbinger265 08:08, July 14, 2010 (UTC) More Comments (edit conflict) I figured I'd start a new section, since there was so much above that I'm not going to try to wade through. Seems like a good idea to me, and as for the particular style, my favorites are the 'Cerberus Theme Hex Health Below' and the 'Cerberus Theme Name and health split, hex form'. I don't really like any of the 'merging', health above, or health outside ones. And when I mean 'don't really like', I really mean I hate them. SpartHawg948 06:52, July 13, 2010 (UTC) :Tell us how you really feel about them. :) Thanks for the input. If you have any suggestions on how to improve anything you see, or anything else to change about the template not related to the whole health bars thing, feel free to express it. Thanks! Dammej 07:09, July 13, 2010 (UTC) ::Oh, I could tell you how I really feel, but we have that pesky policy against offensive language... :P SpartHawg948 07:15, July 13, 2010 (UTC) I'll just hop on to this discussion since, like Spart, there's too much for me to read through all of the above! Anyway, I can't really decide which I like better because, as you have heard from my previous comments in your talk page, the Cerberus theme on the bluish background doesn't look nice to me. In fact, I personally don't like all of the Cerberus template because it don't look pleasing and out of place with the wiki's overall blue scheme. Having said that, I'm leaning more towards 4.1 (4 Health bars merging into the infobox) but with the current colour scheme. Also, I'm wondering if the info text in the template could actually be bigger with a sufficient amount of padding? It's current 0.8em font size it's too small and cramped, it doesn't feel easy on the eyes. Teugene 17:09, July 13, 2010 (UTC) :Fair enough. :) Apparently I misinterpreted your concerns on the talk page. I thought you were just talking about the background that had been under it (the same color background that the name sits on top of in the current theme), not the color of the entire template. I'll attempt to address that issue by re-making the health bars with our bluish/gray theme, rather than the sorta orange-red theme that's used in the game. I'll just upload a mock version of those though, since I feel like I'm already clogging up the wiki with a bunch of tiny pictures for a project that may or may not happen. :P :As to your second concern, I'll see what increasing the font size to .9em will do for us. I played with it in chrome, and it did look much easier to see. I'll give it a shot. :) Dammej 06:44, July 14, 2010 (UTC) Hoookay, finally found the time to mock up the more blue-styled health bar stuffs. They no longer resemble anything in-game, but they go with our current blue-gray theme for the info box. I wasn't sure what color to make the health container thing, since the overall gray color of the rest of the box didn't make it stand out. So I went with a darker blue color that still fits with the scheme (I think. I'm not really a graphic designer, so my experience is essentially "Yeah that looks good!") Anyway, hoping that addresses some of the concerns with the reddish-orange theme clashing with the blue-gray theme we currently have. Still looking for comments and suggestions. I'd like everyone to have concerns voiced before we do any sort of vote. So if I haven't addressed concerns so far, please speak up. :) Oh, I also bumped the font size in all the templates to .9em, as it doesn't seem to mess with any formatting while doing so. So check out what I've got in my sandbox and let me know if your opinion has shifted in any way. -- Dammej (talk) 02:28, July 16, 2010 (UTC) Now I think the one named "Name and health split, box form" and colored blue conforms this wiki's style better than the others. Personally, I couldn't say the same about hex forms, because these angles get on my nerves.--Harbinger265 03:02, July 16, 2010 (UTC) If I may add, I'm just wondering if it might look better if there's more margin around the bars. Looks a little congested in there. Teugene 09:36, July 20, 2010 (UTC) Voting Comments If we're going to be voting on something this important, we should probably send out messages like we did for the Policy Forum. Bastian964 01:42, July 20, 2010 (UTC) :I'm flattered you think it's important. :P But anyway, I'm going to let it coast for a bit, then sent out messages in about a day or so. I've already sent out requests for comments on it, and I don't want to spam people too quickly. -- Dammej (talk) 03:31, July 20, 2010 (UTC) One last call for votes here people. If I haven't contacted you on your talk page, it's not because I do not want your opinion (quite the contrary!), it's because I don't want to send a million messages. So, if you've got an opinion, please let it be known. Thanks! -- Dammej (talk) 21:45, July 28, 2010 (UTC)